Up, up and away. Hivster's Interview with Dan Savage.
In physics the shortest distance from point A to point B is, of course, a straight line.
Something tells me, Dan Savage’s line isn’t straight. Its trajectory, however, is definitely up.
A budding advice columnist in 1991, Dan’s stature since has continued to grow. Most recently, he started an international video campaign to prevent gay teen suicide, “It Gets Better.” Maybe you’ve heard of it?
He currently awaits the first-airing of his new show on MTV, “Savage U” all the while continuing his busy efforts as the Editor-in-Chief of The Stranger.
Nonetheless, he found time to share his feelings about his current success, the current state of HIV prevention campaigns and how his attitudes have changed during his two decade life in the public spotlight.
Brad Crelia: First off, thank you for the “It Gets Better” campaign. Does its success surprise you?
Dan Savage: Honestly, I expected the project to be a “success.” Before we launched the project—before Terry and I sat down to make the first “It Gets Better” video—I bounced the idea off some smart, media-savvy, connected activists and friends, and they all told me it was a good idea and predicted that it would be embraced by the LGBT community. But, I only expected a modest success. We hoped to get a hundred videos, maybe two hundred. We wanted to have a real diversity of voices and life experiences, videos for LGBT youth from LGBT adults (and some by youth themselves) from all walks of life, all races, all religious traditions, and all classes.
I certainly didn’t expect, when we were sitting down at Smith to record our video, that four weeks later we’d get a call from the White House letting us know that the president had made a video, or that six months later there would be It Gets Better projects being launched in other countries all over the world.
BC: The White House invited you to a conference on preventing bullying in March, but six months prior you were pretty livid in your criticism of the White House, “if you’re not going to keep your promises or do what you can to make it better…then you could at least have the simple human decency to shut the fuck up.” How was your experience at the conference and what do you think of the Obama Administration now?
DS: I think the Democrats — not just the Dems in the White House, but the whole Democratic establishment — realized, after the mid-term elections last fall, that they had to start delivering on their promises to the gay community. The gay vote is bigger than the Jewish vote; it’s certainly bigger than the Miami Cuban vote. We’re a large Dem constituency and for a long time it was enough for a Democrat just to say “gay” out loud, or deliver a speech to a gay group. It was enough to make promises during elections that you ran from after you were sworn in. But that changed last year. Dems looked at falling donations from gay groups and donors and the large jump in the percentage of the gay vote going to Republicans.
They realized that they couldn’t take us for granted anymore.
And 2012 may be close and they need us — they need our money, and our votes and they need our enthusiasm. And, they realized looking at the 2010 midterm elections that promises and cocktail parties and symbolic gestures weren’t enough to fire up the queers in the Dem base anymore. And they started to deliver: DADT repeal, dropping the DOMA appeal, making anti-bullying efforts a priority.
So right now I’m pro-Obama, and I’m pro because now they’re delivering. But they’re delivering because we made it quite clear to them — GetEqual, gay bloggers, disappointed gay donors — that we had to see some results, tangible change, or it could hurt ‘em in 2012. And they delivered, finally, some… what was it? Oh, yeah: some change we could believe in.
BC: To change the subject a bit, could you clarify your opinion on HIV as an epidemic? Is HIV no longer crisis? Not just here in America but around the world?
DS: The AIDS crisis is over, the AIDS epidemic continues. We need a vaccine, we need a cure. People are still getting infected, people are still dying. But the crisis stage of the epidemic was the first decade — it was characterized by panic, fear, ignorance. It was the time when no one knew what was killing gay men, or how AIDS was transmitted - the years when there was no treatment, when gay communities and groups and the whole culture was responding — not always positively, not always constructively — to something new and terrifying. The crisis was the panic stage.
But a panic is not sustainable over the long haul. We learned more about AIDS, we learned how to prevent its spread, treatments and drugs were developed that improved and extended the lives of people with HIV. Now, we live with an epidemic but we don’t live with that constant, nagging fear. We don’t live in a state of panic. We’re not in crisis mode anymore. And that’s good.
I came out in 1981. I lived through those crisis years, and it was hell. We’re living through a very different stage of the epidemic now.
The late gay men’s health crusader Eric Rofes wrote about the difference between crisis and epidemic. I recommend his book Dry Bones Breathe.
BC: You’ve previously suggested that a program modeled similarly to child support as a “surefire way to curb unsafe sex…” Making someone who’s HIV+ pay the medical expenses of the person they infect. Could you speak to that a bit, I like the idea but wonder if it is something that could be actually implemented?
DS: No, something like that could not actually be implemented — it’s logistically and practically impossible. And I wasn’t entirely serious when I wrote that. I was engaging in a little hyperbole borne of my feelings of frustration with the behavior of some gay men and the refusal of other gay men to hold the bad actors in our own community responsible for their behavior, for the damage they’re doing to their own community, to their “tribe,” as Rofes described us.
I want to see gay men take more responsibility — for themselves, for their own choices. But we also need to recognize our responsibility to each other. It’s not enough to say, as some men will say, “If he lets me fuck him without a condom, that’s his choice, I’m not responsible for his choices.” I think that’s selfish, self-serving, sociopathic garbage. And it makes me angry, and I have a column, and sometimes I sit down and bang out a column when I’m angry and…
BC:You’ve stated, “I’m sorry, but I’m always suspicious when supposed experts at places like GMHC point to their “longstanding HIV prevention work” when they condemn new, novel, or shocking efforts to reach out to/smack some sense into gay men. Fact is what we’re doing now—those longstanding HIV prevention efforts—are not working. I personally agree that the “longstanding HIV prevention work” isn’t working, but I wonder what you suggest young gay men do in regards to prevention?
DS: HIV [prevention campaigns] are fatally compromised, terribly conflicted. They seems designed, first and foremost, to avoid making the already HIV+ guys feel bad about being positive. That fear—that this, that, or the other HIV education campaign might stigmatize having HIV and hurt the feelings of guys who have HIV — is paralyzing and it leads to neutered, ineffective, flaccid campaigns. They can’t say, “Don’t get HIV! It’s life-altering, it’s hard!” and “HIV is not big deal! You’ll be fine! Guys with HIV are living wonderful, rewarding lives!” at the same time.
Here’s what young gay men need to do in regards to prevention: avoid meth and people who use meth. Don’t have anal sex on the first date—anal isn’t for hookups and it’s not for strangers. The more people you have sex with, the greater your risk of acquiring HIV. One of the biggest and oldest HIV prevention half truths — one I bought into once upon time — is that it doesn’t matter how many people you have sex with, it only matters how you’re having sex. If you’re being “safe,” if you’re using condoms—well, gee! Fuck a million guys! Nothing to worry about!
Sorry, but if you’re having tons of sex — even if you’re using condoms — with tons of guys, your odds of winding up in bed with someone who isn’t careful about keeping that condom on, or is capable of removing it, goes way, way up. Tons of anonymous sex and online hookups? By definition you’re having going to be having sex with people who don’t care about you — they don’t know you! — and you can’t expect that those guys, guys who don’t know and don’t care about you, to look out for your sexual safety or, in some cases, to give two shits about keeping that condom on, using it correctly.
Straight people need to have more sex, and more sex partners, than they do. Gay people need to have fewer sex partners than we can. There’s a balance. We need to find it.
Buy Dan Savage’s latest “It Get’s Better” on Amazon.com,
proceeds to benefit organizations that help LGBT youths.
Photos VIA: Christopher Staton and kelly O
I respectfully disagree with Mr. Savage. While the fear of AIDS and HIV have subsided somewhat, individuals with the virus are still discriminated against on a regular basis. While the crisis, in this country, may have calmed somewhat, it is by no means over. ADAP and other programs for positive individuals are run by the state. If a community does not have a chronic issue or an emerging population as defined by the federal government, very limited funds are provided for medications and wellness. Furthermore, our government looks to cut spending on both research and service delivery.
While it appear to some the the crisis has passed, nothing could be further from the truth. Mr. Savage’s view on HIV/AIDS appears to be sort of narrow in scope as well. HIV/AIDS is not an epidemic, it’s a pandemic. In many African nations, medications and services are still unavailable. Education is not provided on safe sex practices and these countries look just like America did in the 1980′s, except 100 times worse.
Excuse me, who was this interview with again? Rick Santorum? Maggie Gallagher?
I’m thrilled that Dan Savage has his wonderful white-picket fence, 1.5 kids, suburban mentality (yeah, I know he lives in the city, but on this question, he’s spiritually out in the exurbs with the Jesus freaks). It’s great that it works for him. I’m happy for any gay couple that find happiness in the fundamentally conservative marriage model that the LGBT community has adopted as it’s big focus these days.
But where Savage joins with the religious loonies is where he seeks to take that heterosexist model and impose it on all of us.
Fuck that.
Yes, gay men in particular have an obligation to understand the range of potential consequences of their sexual actions. Yes, we have an obligation to understand the risks before we choose which behaviors we’re comfortable with. Yes, if we’re sexually active we have an obligation to ourselves and others to be tested for HIV and other STDs on a regular basis. And yes, if we are HIV+, we have an obligation to disclose that to potential sex partners and to respect limits.
All of that is simply a matter of having respect for ourselves and our “tribe,” as Savage puts it.
Beyond that, Savage has no more business poking his nose into my or anyone else’s sexual practices than Benedict XVI does.
Considering his openness on so many other issues, it’s really sad to see Savage falling right into one of the worst characters an HIV+ gay man has to deal with: the priggish, holier-than-thou, negative nancy.
I agree fully with the above “Corydon says” piece. Mr. Savage has lost touch with ‘his’ community. He should join the Tea Party. After reading this I have lost a great deal of respect for Dan Savage.
Thank you so much for writing this! For many gay men who test positive, the absolute worst thing about being positive is the endless sanctimony of the rest of the gay community-whose status is the result of good luck as much as anything else. Savage deserves to be knocked down a few pegs for being a serophobic jerk, for being the epitome of what is wrong with the gay upper middle class, and for grasping at politically correct relevance (“it gets better!?!?”) while more pressing issues impact his “community”.
Make the “bad actors” pay? This guy is a f*cking idiot who clearly doesn’t understand the basics about the impact of disclosure laws on the negotiation of risk, the normalization of stigma and the reluctance of people to get tested. Is this really the sort of person we want representing “us”? Its people like Savage that leave me referring to “the gay community” with words like “they”.
What I’d like to know is why we don’t see this sort of outrage when idiots like him are given an outlet for their stupidity on mainstream HIV sites.
I agree with you Corydon.
I’m glad I’m not young, gay, and unsure about coming out since if I encountered people like Dan Savage I would want NOTHING to do with being a gay man since I’d think that because of them being a gay man means being a bigoted transphobic and biphobic, racist drama queen.
People like Dan Savage who are a part of the GLBT community who feel the need to put down, spout hatred towards, and exclude our own members of the GLBT community who happen to be either bisexual or trans are hypocrites and lower than pond scum.
No it’s not censorship to call a bigot like Savage out as what he is which is a bigoted hypocrite media whore, and to read a bitch and tell how Savage is a bigoted hypocrite while claiming to be for GLBT rights, sexual freedom and equality for all GLBT people.
Dan Savage and other bigots can run their bigoted mouths off about how much they don’t like Trans people, bisexuals, people who happen to have HIV/AIDS, African Americans voters in the state of CA, or people who don’t have pure vanilla sex but we don’t have to listen to them or take them or what they say seriously, and calling them out as what they are-bigots-is not censorship at all.
These people like Dan Savage who are gay yet hate Trans people and bisexuals, not to mention African American voters in the state of CA—have more in common with hate groups like Fred Phelps’ Westboro Baptist church, Maggie Gallagaher, and NOM than they do with groups that actually do good for GLBT people at large.
Savage is not a spokesperson by default for gay men, GLBT people, or the “community”, and he’s OK on TV and podcasts since you can turn them off instead of listening to his mindless drivel.
Just want to address the Dan Savage hate. He’s doing something good NOW. If you don’t agree with things he’s said or might have said in the past, that your opinion. But, knowing him, I know he great guy, has helped me when I needed it and with “It Get’s Better” will help, millions more. He’s used to this I’m sure but cut him a little slack.
With all due respect to my esteemed editor and our friend Dan Savage, I think it’s perfectly valid to address the problems with Dan’s speech which many times can be seen as transphobic, serophobic, or whatever kind of offensive he feels like being today.
He said recently that he didn’t ask to be an advocate to the gay community, and I feel bad for him in that sense. However, being the outspoken person he has chosen to become in the press, he is in that role. I know many of my readers, both here and on my own newsblog, have a sincere sense of frustration that one of our most visible “faces” can say terrible things about their own community.
That said, I love Dan’s work. I’m sure no-one really begrudges him his accolades related to “It Gets Better,” his advice column, or his stewardship of the Slog. On the other hand, while MP could certainly make his point without such rage-filled invective, it’s anger honestly gotten. Savage has frequently made inappropriate (and in the case of HIV+ and trans people, fearmongering) comments that do not befit someone of his standing in the community.
Thanks for posting your interview with Dan Savage. I’m not very familiar with his work, and I’m curious about how he was anointed the gay male representative and star search community spokesmodel to the press and federal government. I have no doubt that he’s sincere and passionate about his work, and he should be lauded for disseminating and promoting the It Gets Better campaign. I know his heart is in the right place, but after watching many videos and hearing the messages, I’m left with the impression that most of the videos are being produced for the benefit of other adults in the gay community, or for the benefit of the individual posting the video message on you tube.
Telling a questioning adolescent or teen that “it gets better” when they are out of High School, or “it gets better with age”, doesn’t arm someone with new coping skills to deal with isolation or depression, fails to address bullying and violence at school, and doesn’t highlight the benefits of having a teacher or counselor to speak with, and be an advocate, if necessary. Hearing “it gets better” while you’re being sexually or physically abused, or teased mercilessly on a daily basis, seems disingenuous at best. The campaign doesn’t go far enough.
After telling the White House to “shut the fuck up” - it was a very short walk and an invite to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue to being an establishment Democrat spouting the party line. When asked why he was invited to the ball - he said it’s because Democrats need our votes and money. The Dems have taken our community for granted for 20 years, and the little progress made in Congress was in the lame duck session, long gone and last year. “I’m pro because now they’re delivering”…..what exactly are they delivering? There are still service members being discharged under DADT because DOD cannot agree on semantics, and the Marine Commandant is objecting to a single manual and policy that applies equally to the Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines. Where is Enda? WHat about DOMA? Why are states rationing HIV meds under the Ryan White CARE Act?
I have to ask Mr. Savage to shut the fuck up when it comes to HIV. “The AIDS crisis is over but the AIDS epidemic continues.” I don’t know what his sero status is - but for many afflicted with the virus it is a fucking crisis. There is discrimination within the gay community, and even more disdain in our society at large. While lives are being extended with current meds, there are still side affects ranging from insomnia to incontinence, peripheral neuropathy to extreme emotional duress. And the Aids crisis is over. Every day there are still people being infected in the gay community, and in society at large, but the crisis is over. Between 70 and 75 people die of HIV or HIV related diseases every day in the US. And the crisis is over.
My favorite excerpt is that he wants gay men to force the “bad actors in our own community to be responsible for their behavior, and for the damage they’re doing to their community.” He also infers you should only fuck when you have a special relationship, that HIV prevention campaigns fail because they don’t want to offend HIV+ men so the message is compromised, and if you’re a top and fuck bb and the bottom consents that the top is sociopathic garbage.
I get angrier as I read this piece - and Mr Savage does not represent or speak for me. He even says gay men should have less sex! When we want to empower our community to be authentic and embrace one another, Mr Savage says have less sex. Whatever! He’s a fucking sellout emulating straight ideals. No thanks!
Dan Savage is a fuckin’ moron. Another opinionated, privileged white dude speaking for a community that is much more repressed than himself. Would somebody please shut him up!